Planning Application: Bird In Hand Pub, 35 Dartmouth Road

The Forest Hill Society has objected to plans to change the Bird In Hand Pub, planning application DC/23/132691: Demolition of the existing canopy and construction of a 3 storey extension plus mansard roof at the side, an additional storey at first floor level at the rear and an external staircase, together with alterations to lower ground for bike and refuse storage to provide 6 self-contained residential units and 3 self-contained Bed And Breakfast Rooms at Bird in Hand PH, 35 Dartmouth Road SE23.

We are writing to object to the above application by virtue of the detrimental impact on the Forest Hill Conservation Area.

The Forest Hill Conservation Area is characterised by its commercial and retail centre around the railway station and surrounding suburban residential streets and green spaces. The application site has historically operated as a public house, having replaced a previous public house on the site between 1895 and 1916. The form, materiality and appearance of the building is representative of the Victorian and Edwardian architecture that characterises the Conservation Area. Moreover, its glazed brick frontage, which we accept had been covered previously, although potentially without the benefit of Planning Permission, provides interest and variety to the streetscape, particularly considering the loss of historic shopfronts in the Conservation Area. The pub’s position at the corner of Dartmouth Road and Bird in Hand Passage, as well as the space provided by the shelter on the south elevation, give the site more prominence in the streetscene. Therefore, it is considered that the application site currently makes a positive contribution to the significance of the Conservation Area.

We believe the application proposals would result in harm to the significance of the Conservation Area through the loss of features and elements of the site which contribute positively. We have discussed the proposals in turn below:

Additional Height and Roof Form

Given the immediate two-storey context of the site, the proposed three storey plus mansard extension would be overbearing to the surrounding and adjacent modest two-storey terraced buildings.

The mansard roof exacerbates the impact given its height is almost identical to the storeys below. This side of Dartmouth Road is very clearly more traditional than the other side, and whilst there are instances of contemporary forms or mansards beyond Dartmouth Road, such as in the more recent developments towards the railway, the built form along Dartmouth Road has retained traditional hipped or pitched roofs. There are no mansards on any buildings on this side of the road fronting Dartmouth Road. The acceptance of a mansard roof in place of an original roof form would establish a dangerous precedent within this part of the Forest Hill Conservation Area as well as result in the loss of an original hipped roof form and chimney.

Proposed Appearance

The proposed inset balconies to the front elevation would be out of character with Dartmouth Road, which does not have analogous examples. Moreover, the form and scale of the proposed balconies does not tie in well with the modest scale and character of the existing building. The openings facing Bird in Hand Passage would detract from the traditionally-scaled windows across the building as well as look odd at the mansard level where the opening is more trapezoidal in shape. Given the overriding character of this side of Dartmouth Road and the host building, any new balconies should be positioned to the rear.

Extension Towards Bird in Hand Passage

Historic mapping shows that between 1916 and 1952, a historic smithy was demolished to make the building line consistent along the northern side of Bird in Hand Passage. Whilst the terraced housing at the end of the street was demolished for the Phoenix Works development, this building line was maintained in the new development. The extension of the site towards Bird in Hand Passage would reduce the ability to appreciate the historic building line as well as the changing townscape as one moves towards closer to the railway. Whilst the submitted Daylight/Sunlight Report has raised no issues with such impacts on the neighbouring properties, the drastic increase in height on a historically open space would have an overbearing effect on the streetscene.

Elevational Treatment

Lastly, the drawings indicate that the glazed brickwork would again be covered by render. Although it is noted that the glazed brickwork was covered until recently, it is not clear whether this ever had Planning Permission. Furthermore, as a historic, original cladding material that is most often associated with public houses, this treatment is an important element within the streetscene of Dartmouth Road and the wider Conservation Area. Its loss should be resisted.

Summary

Therefore, the above comments have highlighted where harm to the significance of the Forest Hill Conservation Area is being derived as a result of the application proposals. The submission has not demonstrated that alternative schemes have been discounted nor that this is the least harmful proposal. The application has also not presented any public benefits to outweigh the heritage harm caused, as per Paragraph 202 of the NPPF.

Although a Heritage Statement has been submitted in support of the proposals, we do not believe it fulfils the requirement set out in Paragraph 194 of the NPPF, which states: “In determining applications, local planning authorities should require an applicant to describe the significance of any heritage assets affected, including any contribution made by their setting. The level of detail should be proportionate to the assets’ importance and no more than is sufficient to understand the potential impact of the proposal on their significance.” The Heritage Statement does not sufficiently assess the significance of the Forest Hill Conservation Area, nor the impact of the proposals on that significance.

We have also noted that the submitted Design and Access Statement makes reference to Flat being a 1 bed, 3 person unit, but we have assumed the ‘3 person’ is a typo and it should be ‘2 person’.

We therefore request the application is refused.

Forest Hill Society Christmas Quiz

 

The Forest Hill Society invites you to The 2022 CHRISTMAS QUIZ

Tuesday 20 December, 7.30pm at All Inn One pub, 53 Perry Vale, London SE23 2NE

Maximum 6 people per team. Register at Eventbrite

Entry is free, but donations to Lewisham Foodbank welcome via our fundraising page: https://www.justgiving.com/page/foresthillsocietyxmas2022

The Capitol and Other Lost Cinemas of Forest Hill

Alistair Dey looks at The Capitol pub and Forest Hill’s other former cinemas.
In May 2016, JD Wetherspoon announced that they were going to sell off The Capitol pub on London Road in Forest Hill. Indeed, two years earlier there had been rumours that the pub was closing or being sold off or being converted back into a cinema. For a large, seemingly successful pub which packs in the drinkers and eaters, I found this to be a slightly strange decision. Over a year on, Wetherspoon’s pub is still there, possibly because they have not yet found anyone to take over the lease or because the building is a Grade II listed building. Whatever the reason, I hope the pub continues and, if sold, the building does not lie empty again as it had previously done in the mid-1970s and late-1990s.

The Capitol is the jewel in the crown of Forest Hill’s cinematic heritage. It is believed that Lewisham borough once had more than 30 cinemas though not all in existence at the same time; Forest Hill had three of these cinemas.

Three houses on London Road had to be demolished to make way for the new  Capitol Cinema. Designed in a Neo-Classical style, the cinema was built in 1928-9 for London & Southern Cinemas and designed by noted cinema architect and garden designer, John Stanley Beard. The building also reflected an Egyptian influence, a style popular at the time following the opening of Tutankhamun’s tomb in 1922. The cinema opened on 11th February 1929 with John Gilbert in  the silent film Man, Woman and Sin. The local MP and the Mayor of Lewisham gave speeches at the opening. The opening programme’s advert described the cinema as a “New Mammoth Luxury House of Entertainment.”

The Capitol had class: It had a Compton theatre organ which was in use, as required, until it was removed in the late-1950s, a café for the convenience of patrons and an impressive initial seating capacity of 1,691 in the stalls and circle. The stage was deep and wide and, along with three dressing rooms, it allowed for music and variety shows to be staged — music hall type shows into the 1950s and pop concerts in the 1960s.
Since the cinema was designed and built just at the end of the Silent era of movies, sound equipment had to be installed very soon after it opened for the “Talkies”. The first sound film was The Singing Fool starring Al Jolson on 15 April 1929. This was the follow-up film to Jolson’s Jazz Singer, the first commercial Talkie. Some silent films continued to be shown at The Capitol for another year or so until the sound era took over completely.

The cinema was taken over by Associated British Cinemas (ABC) in July 1933 and they operated it for the remainder of its cinematic life. The cinema was re-named ABC in December 1968 and closed on 13th October 1973 with its last two films being the road movie Scarecrow starring Gene Hackman and Al Pacino and Class of ’44 starring Gary Grimes. The building stood empty for several years until it was leased to Mecca Ltd and opened as a Mecca Bingo Club on 23rd February 1978. It was later leased to the Jasmine group and  was known as the Jasmine Social Club. Bingo ceased in early December 1996 and the building again stood empty and unused.

In September 1993, while still a bingo hall, the building was designated as a Grade II listed building. This means it is of special architectural or historic interest; considered to be of national importance, and therefore worth protecting; and warranting every effort to preserve it. The then Department of National Heritage described the building as “a rare survival of a complete 1920s cinema and the earliest complete cinema by J Stanley Beard now surviving.” This protection partly explains why The Capitol is the only former cinema in the area still recognisable as a cinema.

The building re-opened on 9th May 2001 as part of the Wetherspoon chain of pubs, which brings us, 16 years later, to the pub’s uncertain future.

The Two Other Lost Cinemas of Forest Hill

The Capitol was undoubtedly one of the foremost cinemas in south-east London. There were, at different times, two other cinemas in Forest Hill. The first cinema, The Picture Playhouse, opened in September 1910 but was short-lived. This relatively small 400 seater cinema was created out of existing shop premises, with its auditorium at the rear, where the China House restaurant now stands at 18 Dartmouth Road. By November that year, a tea lounge had been added to the building. The cinema was then refurbished in 1912 and re-named the Empire Picture Theatre. It ultimately closed in February 1914 and the premises then reverted to retail use. In recent times it has been a second-hand furniture shop, Wok Express and now the China House restaurant.

Forest Hill’s other cinema lasted longer before, presumably, succumbing to the embryonic TV age. The Stanstead Picture Palace opened in January 1913 at 12-14 Wastdale Road, just off Stanstead Road. Like The Picture Playhouse in Dartmouth Road, its entrance was created out of shop premises, with its 834-seat auditorium built at the rear. By 1927 it had been renamed the Stanstead Cinema and, in that year, it had a canopy installed over its entrance.

Western Electric Sound was installed in 1931 to bring the cinema into the Talkies era. The cinema had a brief closure while this work was carried out, and re-opened on 26th December 1931 as the Astoria Cinema, with Marion Davies in It’s a Wise Child. Incidentally, this film was a Hollywood “Pre-Code” comedy. “Pre-Code Hollywood” refers to the brief era in the American film industry between the introduction of sound pictures in 1929 and the enforcement of the Motion Picture Production Code censorship guidelines in mid-1934. As a result, films in the late 1920s and early 1930s were often much less sanitised than later films and often featured some strong female characters.

The cinema was renamed the Balmoral Cinema on 11th April 1954, but soon closed on 29th May 1954. It was re-opened as the New Astoria Cinema on 14th November 1954, but only lasted a few more months before finally closing on 26th February 1955.

In August 1968, the building was converted into an independent bingo club. It later became derelict and was ultimately demolished in 1975 — as was much of the surrounding neighbourhood during that “wrecking-ball” decade. The site was later redeveloped and housing was built. The cinema, when it existed, was a few yards away from the old Swiss Cottage pub on Stanstead Road, which was demolished in 1990.

Sydenham’s Cinemas

Although Forest Hill had three former cinemas, this is outmatched by Sydenham, which can claim five former cinemas at one time or another: two on Sydenham Road (where The Sydenham Centre and the empty Budgens supermarket now stand), one in Kirkdale, one in Silverdale and one at the Bell Green end of Perry Hill.

Thanks to the book “The Big 5: Lewisham Super Cinemas” by Ken George and the websites “Cinema Treasures” and “Lewisham’s Lost Cinemas” for much of the information in this article.

A Recent History of Forest Hill Pubs

by Alistair Dey

When I came to live in Forest Hill in the early 1980s there were 14 pubs in the SE23 post code. I know this as I have a book from that time published by the Campaign For Real Ale (CAMRA) entitled ‘Real Ale in South London’, which lists and briefly describes these pubs. Despite the nationwide demise of many pubs in recent years, Forest Hill has been less hard-hit than many other areas. There are now 13 pubs in SE23 — we have lost three and gained two pubs since the early ’80s.

The first of the three pubs which closed was Tyrols at 149 Stanstead Road, on the corner of Wastdale Road. This big pub was previously known as the Swiss Cottage and in the 1980s was a disco pub at weekends, which is when I occasionally visited it. The pub was demolished in 1990 and an apartment block now stands in its place.

The next to close was the Moore Park Hotel on Wood Vale, at the far western edge of SE23. This is the only pub of the 14 in which I never had a drink. It was closed in the early 2000s, and is also now a block of flats. The most recent one to close, in about 2010, was the Forest Hill Hotel, located in the quiet part of Stanstead Road on the way to Travis Perkins and Shannons. It is now a rather attractive block of flats.

The two pubs which we have gained are: The Capitol on London Road, which opened in April 2001 and, as many people know, was formerly a cinema, then a bingo hall; and the Sylvan Post on Dartmouth Road, which opened a couple of years ago in the former 1960s post office and retains many features of the original building. We could even say SE23 has 14 pubs if one includes the Perry Vale (‘Kitchen and Bar’), which opened in June 2015. This excellent establishment is listed in CAMRA’s What Pub website but I do not classify it as a pub — although there is perhaps a blurring of the lines now between pubs, bistros and bars. Similarly, in Honor Oak, the Two Spoons and Donde are bars as well as restaurants. So perhaps we even have 16 pubs/bars in SE23.

Of the other eleven pubs, I would say that the theme has been improvement over the years. Several have been extensively refurbished and some much improved since the 1980s. In this latter category, I would include:

• All Inn One on Perry Vale, which was occasionally a bit rough in my early years in Forest Hill (though that did not prevent it from being my main local), but is excellent now.
• The Dartmouth Arms on Dartmouth Road, which is pleasant and serves fine food now, unlike in the 1980s.
• The Chandos on Brockley Rise, which was refurbished and reopened in September 2016 and is now (but was not always) a lovely pub
• The Honor Oak on St German’s Road, which was extensively refurbished in 2006, 2014 and most recently in 2017.

Other pubs which were good in the 1980s and are still fine now are: the Prince of Wales on Perry Rise, which was my other main local back then and was renovated in 2013; The Signal on Devonshire Road, opposite Forest Hill station; The Bird in Hand on Dartmouth Road; The Hill, further up Dartmouth Road; and the Railway Telegraph on the corner of Sunderland and Stanstead Roads.

The remaining two pubs are ‘outlying’ ones, about which I have least knowledge: the General Napier on Bovill Road, Honor Oak Park and the Blythe Hill Tavern on Stanstead Road, almost in Catford. Both are traditional pubs serving the local community and are assets to the local area. The Blythe Hill Tavern has won several awards from CAMRA.

Of the 13 pubs in SE23, a few have changed their name in the last couple of decades: the All Inn One, which was previously known as the Foresters Arms; The Signal, which was the Pie & Kilderkin in the 1980s, then The Hobgoblin, and then The Hob, before becoming The Signal; The Hill, which was previously The Malt Shovel then Question Bar; The Honor Oak, which was previously known as the St Germain’s Hotel; and even the Chandos, which was formerly known as the Chandos Hotel.

Finally, of the 13 pubs, seven are located ‘centrally’, i.e. in or very near Forest Hill railway station; three are in or near Honor Oak Park; one, the Railway Telegraph is a bit further out; and two, the Prince of Wales and The Blythe Hill Tavern, are on the fringes of the SE23 post code. All of them deserve to be cherished.

Pub Crawl: Thursday 26th November

The Forest Hill Society invite you to a Pub Crawl through Forest Hill on Thursday 26th November. 

Pub Crawl through pubs new and old in SE23, starting at the All Inn One on Perry Vale at 7:30pm and departing for the next venue at 8pm. Just turn up!

Sadly we cannot visit all the pubs of Forest Hill, but we have a selection to take you to, where you can purchase a variety of refreshing beverages.

This is a great way to meet other local people to enjoy a drink and a chat.

Business Profile: The Perryvale Bistro & Bar

Belinda Evans from the Forest Hill Society interviewed owner Royston Holmes about his new venture, The Perryvale Bistro & Bar, which is located on the east side of Forest Hill station at 31a Perry Vale.

Why did you choose Forest Hill for your new venture? Opening our business in Forest Hill has been a real pleasure, and everyone has been incredibly kind and complimentary. We were looking for a site in South East London in order to link with my partners’ (Hector, Jen & Matt) other site, The Crooked Well in Camberwell. A lot of The Crooked Well’s regular customers are from Forest Hill and it kept coming up in our search; so, when The Perry Vale site became available we had a really good feeling. 

Tell us a bit about some of your dishes and their provenance? Our menu aims to provide a modern British feel drawing on some classic European influences.

What’s your most popular dish so far? It’s difficult to say which dish has been most popular however our baked squid flies out on a daily basis along with our mustard rabbit leg in its summery broth. We always have great specials on, too!!

How do you choose your wines since you have a really extensive and lovely wine list? Our wine list is personally selected by Hector who has some fantastic contacts in the industry, including some of the best vineyards in South Africa and world-class Master Sommeliers.

Do you use local suppliers? We use local, independent suppliers where we can, including William Rose Butchers in East Dulwich.

What’s your favourite thing about Forest Hill? I’m overwhelmed by the feeling of community in Forest Hill. Ninety-five percent of our customers at the moment live ‘just down the road’ so it’s great to be able to build strong links with the area.

Where do you like to eat out in Forest Hill (or the wider area)? I must confess, I haven’t had a huge amount of time to sample the culinary delights in the area, but I’ve had two really good meals at The Dartmouth Arms.

What do you think Forest Hill needs next? I doubt very much that I am qualified enough to discuss what Forest Hill needs next. However, it would be great to see the Perry Vale side of the tracks given a bit of a lift!

What are your plans for The Perryvale in the next few months or years? Having been open for just a month the focus is very much on gaining confidence in our product, but we’re already looking at developing a weekend brunch and pushing a wallet-friendly lunch menu.

For more info, visit www.theperryvale.com.

The Signal (formerly The Hob)

The Hob, 7 Devonshire Road, temporarily closed its doors in September for renovations under new ownership. Hippo Inns’ Chief Operating Officer, Dawn Donohoe, provided us with news about their plans for the pub.

The Signal will be re-opening The Hob in early October in a very different disguise. We look forward to welcoming local residents and businesses to food tastings and events, and sneak previews from the end of September.

As the pub was originally known as the Railway Signal and we were keen to take it back to its roots, we have chosen to change the name from The Hob. We want The Signal to be a place where you want to chill out and relax, and feel it’s an extension of your own home.

The interior of the pub will feel very homely, cosy and fresh. We are working hard to enhance the original characteristics of the building — we have had to do quite a bit of nurturing to get it back to health!

With regards to entertainment, our focus initially will be on acoustic live entertainment from 6:30-8:30pm, when you will be able to listen to covers of all sorts of old favourites.

Unlike Ron and Emma, the previous owners, we are not comedy experts. However, we do recognise the strong following The Hob had so, we are looking into introducing comedy but need to learn the ropes first — not to mention getting our new team pulling the perfect pint; serving the most delicious, fresh, honest food; and, of course, whipping up the best cocktail you have ever had.

Our food offer harks back to the simplicity of open-fire cooking when ale houses were first born. Our ‘spit and grill’ concept will be visible to the customer, and the menu will showcase the best and freshest British ingredients.

The pub’s main drinks offer will be focused around craft beer and rotating local ales with a 20-strong wine list. Upstairs you will find a feature cocktail bar with the best Gin, Vodka and Rum collection in South London. The cocktails will be quickly and deliciously created by our very own mixologist, who will train and manage our bar team.

We want to get to you know you all and cannot wait to be a part of Forest Hill!