Planning Application: Bird In Hand Pub, 35 Dartmouth Road

The Forest Hill Society has objected to plans to change the Bird In Hand Pub, planning application DC/23/132691: Demolition of the existing canopy and construction of a 3 storey extension plus mansard roof at the side, an additional storey at first floor level at the rear and an external staircase, together with alterations to lower ground for bike and refuse storage to provide 6 self-contained residential units and 3 self-contained Bed And Breakfast Rooms at Bird in Hand PH, 35 Dartmouth Road SE23.

We are writing to object to the above application by virtue of the detrimental impact on the Forest Hill Conservation Area.

The Forest Hill Conservation Area is characterised by its commercial and retail centre around the railway station and surrounding suburban residential streets and green spaces. The application site has historically operated as a public house, having replaced a previous public house on the site between 1895 and 1916. The form, materiality and appearance of the building is representative of the Victorian and Edwardian architecture that characterises the Conservation Area. Moreover, its glazed brick frontage, which we accept had been covered previously, although potentially without the benefit of Planning Permission, provides interest and variety to the streetscape, particularly considering the loss of historic shopfronts in the Conservation Area. The pub’s position at the corner of Dartmouth Road and Bird in Hand Passage, as well as the space provided by the shelter on the south elevation, give the site more prominence in the streetscene. Therefore, it is considered that the application site currently makes a positive contribution to the significance of the Conservation Area.

We believe the application proposals would result in harm to the significance of the Conservation Area through the loss of features and elements of the site which contribute positively. We have discussed the proposals in turn below:

Additional Height and Roof Form

Given the immediate two-storey context of the site, the proposed three storey plus mansard extension would be overbearing to the surrounding and adjacent modest two-storey terraced buildings.

The mansard roof exacerbates the impact given its height is almost identical to the storeys below. This side of Dartmouth Road is very clearly more traditional than the other side, and whilst there are instances of contemporary forms or mansards beyond Dartmouth Road, such as in the more recent developments towards the railway, the built form along Dartmouth Road has retained traditional hipped or pitched roofs. There are no mansards on any buildings on this side of the road fronting Dartmouth Road. The acceptance of a mansard roof in place of an original roof form would establish a dangerous precedent within this part of the Forest Hill Conservation Area as well as result in the loss of an original hipped roof form and chimney.

Proposed Appearance

The proposed inset balconies to the front elevation would be out of character with Dartmouth Road, which does not have analogous examples. Moreover, the form and scale of the proposed balconies does not tie in well with the modest scale and character of the existing building. The openings facing Bird in Hand Passage would detract from the traditionally-scaled windows across the building as well as look odd at the mansard level where the opening is more trapezoidal in shape. Given the overriding character of this side of Dartmouth Road and the host building, any new balconies should be positioned to the rear.

Extension Towards Bird in Hand Passage

Historic mapping shows that between 1916 and 1952, a historic smithy was demolished to make the building line consistent along the northern side of Bird in Hand Passage. Whilst the terraced housing at the end of the street was demolished for the Phoenix Works development, this building line was maintained in the new development. The extension of the site towards Bird in Hand Passage would reduce the ability to appreciate the historic building line as well as the changing townscape as one moves towards closer to the railway. Whilst the submitted Daylight/Sunlight Report has raised no issues with such impacts on the neighbouring properties, the drastic increase in height on a historically open space would have an overbearing effect on the streetscene.

Elevational Treatment

Lastly, the drawings indicate that the glazed brickwork would again be covered by render. Although it is noted that the glazed brickwork was covered until recently, it is not clear whether this ever had Planning Permission. Furthermore, as a historic, original cladding material that is most often associated with public houses, this treatment is an important element within the streetscene of Dartmouth Road and the wider Conservation Area. Its loss should be resisted.

Summary

Therefore, the above comments have highlighted where harm to the significance of the Forest Hill Conservation Area is being derived as a result of the application proposals. The submission has not demonstrated that alternative schemes have been discounted nor that this is the least harmful proposal. The application has also not presented any public benefits to outweigh the heritage harm caused, as per Paragraph 202 of the NPPF.

Although a Heritage Statement has been submitted in support of the proposals, we do not believe it fulfils the requirement set out in Paragraph 194 of the NPPF, which states: “In determining applications, local planning authorities should require an applicant to describe the significance of any heritage assets affected, including any contribution made by their setting. The level of detail should be proportionate to the assets’ importance and no more than is sufficient to understand the potential impact of the proposal on their significance.” The Heritage Statement does not sufficiently assess the significance of the Forest Hill Conservation Area, nor the impact of the proposals on that significance.

We have also noted that the submitted Design and Access Statement makes reference to Flat being a 1 bed, 3 person unit, but we have assumed the ‘3 person’ is a typo and it should be ‘2 person’.

We therefore request the application is refused.

Planning Application: Miriam Lodge, Dartmouth Road

Thee is a proposed development at Miriam Lodge, 185 Dartmouth Road, London SE26 4RQ  application DC/21/123657: Demolition of existing annex building ancillary to the hostel at Miriam Lodge 185 Dartmouth Road SE26 and construction of 9 three storey 4 bedroomed dwelling houses together with the provision of cycling spaces at the rear and refuse/recycling storage.

The Forest Hill Society has written to object to this application on the grounds that at least one of the proposed dwellings does not meet adequate standards for the size of unit.

1. The unit in question is the westernmost of the proposed development on the Long terrace, adjacent to the existing substation.

2. Although the Daylight Report by BDLA generally considers that the scheme meets adequate standards, the Report specifically identifies that this unit is deficient in meeting almost all of the daylight standards for most of the habitable rooms.  

3. With its position backing on to the electricity substation, we consider the garden is not of an adequate size for a 4-bedroom house, particularly where it is anticipated that young children/adults will be living there.

We therefore request the application is refused by the council.

Planning Application: 43 Dartmouth Road

43 DARTMOUTH ROAD, LONDON, SE23 3HN, application DC/22/127781: Prior Approval under Schedule 2, Part 3, Class MA of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order 2015 (as amended) for the change of use of the existing ground floor and basement from retail (Use Class E) to a single dwelling (Use Class C3) at 43 Dartmouth Road SE23.

We are writing to object to the above application by virtue of the unsuitable accommodation proposed and the detrimental impact on the Forest Hill Conservation Area.

The proposals do not satisfy the requirements within “Technical housing standards – nationally described space standard” (Department for Communities and Local Government, March 2015) or the London Plan (March 2021). The above space standards do not cater for a 1 bedroom/2 person accommodation over two floors, so this would be subject to the 1 bedroom/2 person requirement. The proposed 45 sqm unit would therefore not satisfy the requirement within both of the above documents of 58 sqm.

The Forest Hill Conservation Area is characterised by its commercial and retail centre around the railway station and surrounding suburban residential streets and green spaces. The commercial core, including the retail units along Dartmouth Road contribute to this area’s character. The loss of a retail unit in this area and the resulting inactivity of its frontage would erode this commercial character and ultimately, the character of the wider Conservation Area.

We therefore request the application is refused.

Taste of Greek, 63 Dartmouth Road

By Rob Owen

Greek cuisine is, at its best, a combination of simple ingredients, prepared in traditional style. The mainland and islands offer a wide range of local variations and dishes, but in each Greek town there are thriving local grills offering the reliable staple of fresh, spiced and grilled meats, served with salad, chips and homemade tzatziki – reasonably priced and with no silverware in sight.

In recent years, Taste of Greek’s owner Andreas (Andrew) studied the techniques and ingredients of such grills across Athens, with a view to bringing the best of this concept to London. Luckily for us, Andrew found suitable premises in Forest Hill’s Dartmouth Road.

In March 2021, along with his supportive parents, Andrew began serving classic gyros and skewered meats (kanonaki) in Forest Hill. In typical Greek style, there was no major opening event, but rather a steady focus on sourcing and preparing the best Greek food around — and working efficiently to meet the growing peak-time demand.

Taste of Greek has become available for delivery on all major fast-food ordering platforms, but we also recommend stopping by to collect your order from time to time — to witness the dedication and craft that goes into the perfect gyros.

Taste of Greek is open from noon to 10pm each Friday through Wednesday.
63 Dartmouth Road, SE23 3HN
https://tasteofgreek.co.uk/order-now

Me and Mr. Jones

by Jason Kee

Last November a new business, Mr. Jones Watches, opened at 61 Dartmouth Road in a unit once occupied by the Forest Hill Supermarket.  

Glimpse inside through the coloured shutters and you’ll see a bright and airy workshop with a team of artisans leaning over tables surrounded by an array of small tools. If you’re really lucky you’ll see Stanley in the window, the owner’s dog keeping a close eye on local shoppers. Our new arrival is only open by appointment, but a look at their website shows off a collection of the most ‘unique and unusual’ watches. The designs range from the colourful and fanciful to the monochromatic and macabre. But with names like ‘a Perfectly useless afternoon’ and ‘the Promise of happiness’ you feel each must have their own story, perhaps just as mysterious as some of the watch movements themselves.

Mr. Jones is Crispin Jones and on one hot summer day (there have been so few) I met up with Crispin for a chat about this new business, watches and his unusual journey from artist to watchmaker.

Mr. Jones Watches’ new Forest Hill location was born of necessity. With customers from around the world, many of them collectors, Crispin found himself in need of more space after 13 years of operating in the Oxo Tower and Camberwell. Now living in Honor Oak Park, Crispin and his partner Amy had fallen in love with the area. Saturdays included visits to Dartmouth Road, lunch at Aga’s Little Deli and visits to the many independent stores. So when the shop at 61 Dartmouth Road became available they had no qualms in buying it. This was followed by a complete refit with part of the rear turned into a double height space bringing it lots of natural light and perfect for a new workshop for their exquisite watches.

This is their third location. Mr. Jones Watches first opened in a small unit in the Oxo Tower in 2009. Crispin describes this as the smallest unit in the building but from there he assembled his watches and sold them to the public. After repatriating production to London from China around 2012, they opened a dedicated workshop in Camberwell. This Forest Hill location was intended to house their entire team, but business has been good and now they plan to keep both Camberwell and Forest Hill operating along with the store in Bankside.

Crispin did not start out as a watchmaker. His undergraduate degree at Kingston University was in sculpture through which he developed a fascination in Photoshop (then a new design tool) and in graphic design. His output focussed on the documentation of imagined pieces through photography. A Masters at the Royal College of Art in computer-related design encouraged him to look at the social function of technology. In his own words, this was a ‘playful’ way to look at the world using technology and the interface with it. Following graduation, he began work with Phillips Design (of shaver fame) and for IDEO London — a multi-national design and consulting firm.

It was while with IDEO, in the early 2000s, that he created ‘Social Phones’, an exhibition of mobile phone designs that forced users to be more aware of their environment. This included a phone for people who spoke too loudly (think Dom Joly), delivering an electric shock to the user dependant on how loudly the person on the other end was speaking. Another recreated the phone as a musical instrument with the numbers ‘played’ to dial the phone.

This led naturally to Crispin’s next project, an exhibition of watches designed to question the function of the watch itself. He produced seven designs, among them Fallax, a lie detector and Summissus a watch to remind the wearer of their mortality. The exhibition and these watches were a success and gave Crispin an international profile.

While a success, Crispin also found the process unsatisfying. The watches were one-offs and while provocative in their function, they were simply exhibition pieces. He began to imagine a watch that was both unique in its design but affordable in price. It is here we see the fine artist with a computer design degree become the watchmaker.

In 2006, Crispin’s first five watches were all self-designed. Some drew inspiration from past exhibition work, like the Summissus — now re-created as ‘Remember you will die’, this has become one of his best sellers. By replacing the conventional hands with transparent disc hands, he was able to explore designs that step away from traditional watch faces allowing the face itself to be an integral part of the movement. Today the watches move between the macabre to the sublimely beautiful.

At first Crispin designed his own watches. Often the designs did reference mortality. As he himself noted, timepieces by their nature offer a narrative on death. After four years, he began to collaborate on designs, where his collaborators were people with a connection to time. For instance, a collaboration with Graeme Obree, A Scotsman who twice held the world hour record in cycling.

Today most of Mr. Jones Watches’ new designs are realised through collaboration. Many are from artists known to Crispin, though some originate through unsolicited submissions. This includes their best-selling watch ‘A perfectly useless afternoon’ which came from working with Kristoff Devos, a Belgium illustrator and author. Keeping with the theme of ‘time’ and storytelling, this watch serves as a gentle reminder to take it easy and spend time enjoying the moment.

Britain once had a clockmaking industry, but after the war, much of this art was lost to the Swiss and then the Chinese. Therefore, it is hardly surprising that Crispin’s journey to watch making was unconventional.

His first attempt to manufacture came by randomly contacting Chinese manufacturers, finally finding one only requiring a minimum order of 500. After visiting the manufacturer in China in 2012, he became confident he could shorten the design process by printing the prototypes in London. By bringing this process in-house, Crispin also discovered he could introduce more colour, texture and affects. He found he could create a scene inside the watch face, and the time becomes part of it.

Today all the watches are designed AND produced right here in London including in Forest Hill. This makes Mr. Jones Watches a very rare business today. Watches are still designed in small production runs, but the printing is now done in house and by the hand of artisans. Crispin continues to create a few new designs each year, with the most popular joining the permanent collection.

Speaking with Crispin it is very clear he is passionate about his watches, proud of the design collaborations and their accessibility to the public. These are truly unique artworks, designed and produced right here in Forest Hill, and enjoyed by customers and fans all over the world. When it comes time to buy a gift that special person, be it a friend, a loved one or even you give some thought to a Mr. Jones Watch. After all, a timepiece is timeless.

61 Dartmouth Road, SE23 3HN
https://mrjoneswatches.com/

Planning Application: 59-61 Dartmouth Road

The Forest Hill Society has written to object to a recent planning application at 59-61 Dartmouth Road

 
I am writing on behalf of the Forest Hill Society regarding the proposed development at 59-61 DARTMOUTH ROAD, application DC/21/121195: The construction of an additional storey at 59-61 Dartmouth Road, SE23 together with an additional storey on the existing rear projection at No. 61, a four storey enclosed stairwell to the rear of No.59 and rear dormers to provide a 5 person HMO, 1x two bedroom and 1x three bedroom self-contained units and all associated works.

Recently we have been made aware of aspects of this application that we cannot support, and we wish to register our objection to this application.

 

The plans and application form state that the first floor of this property is an HMO. There is no record of a previous planning application for this change of use in a conservation area, nor is this property registered with Lewisham Council as an HMO. The application states that there is existing permitted use for C4 (HMO) for 131.7m. We believe this to be inaccurate information that significantly changes the nature of this application.

This planning application should be considered with reference to Lewisham Local Plan DM policy 6

DM Policy 6 - Houses in multiple occupation (HMOs)

1. The Council will only consider the provision of new Houses in Multiple

Occupation where they:

a. are located in an area with a public transport accessibility level (PTAL) of 3 or higher

b. do not give rise to any significant amenity impact(s) on the surrounding neighbourhood

c. do not result in the loss of existing larger housing suitable for family occupation

 

The conversion that has already been made (without planning permission) has resulted in the loss of an existing larger housing suitable for family occupation. There have also been numerous reports by neighbouring residents and shopkeepers of anti-social and criminal behaviour in and around the existing HMO.

 

The addition of two units above a poorly managed HMO would make it unsuitable for families due to the existing anti-social behaviour, as a result there continues to be a net loss of family housing on this site, which goes against planning policy.

 

For the reasons set out above, we would encourage Lewisham Council to refuse this planning application.

Late Night Local Shopping - Thursday 5th December

Thursday 5th December 2019 is late night shopping in Forest Hill and Kirkdale, with many shops open until 8pm!

Shop Local this Christmas with many great independent shops opening late including:
Aga's Deli, Archie Parker, Beetroot and Beans, Bunka, Butchery, Design by Ben, Dulwich Reclamation, JH Skin Care, Journey Cafe, Kitchen Skills, Leaf and Groove, Lindo 2 Wheels, Mabel's Five and Dime, MaxMadeMeDoIt, Moustache, Smallprint Books, Stag and Bow, Subplot57, Vardo, Wild Horses, Yolly the Florist, and more! 

Smoddy Sharp — Redefining the Norm

By Jason Kee

Recently, I popped along for a chat and a coffee with Marie Robertson and Rohan Spencer, the owners of Smoddy Sharp at 33 Dartmouth Road. Smoddy Sharp is a fairly new addition to our high street, bringing male grooming and tailoring to Forest Hill.

On entering, my first impressions were just “Wow!” Clients enter into a luxurious lounge/waiting area with plush leather seating and rich colours. Decorated by Marie herself, the entrance area is a well-thought-out eclectic mix of furniture from the early 20th century to modern retro. Unashamedly masculine, it greatly benefits from her collector’s eye. As beautiful as the furnishings are, the room draws you through to the magnificent bar that guards shelves of tempting spirits. Marie offers me a coffee, but I would prefer a cocktail ... except it’s only 9:30am.

As we sit down in the rear garden for coffee, my first question is, “What is ‘smoddy’ and why is it sharp?” Rohan answers rather quickly, as I suspect the question may have come up before. “Smoddy is a Jamaican word. Someone who is smoddy is an extrovert: they stand out and they like to look good, have sharp outfits, so they can be ‘smoddy sharp’.” The follow-up question is obvious. “How to pronounce it?” Rohan answers, “It should be smoddy, like body, but the Jamaican accent makes it sound like smuddy, like muddy.”

Now entering its second year, Smoddy Sharp has become a favoured destination on Dartmouth Road by men-folk in Forest Hill and beyond. Past the grand entrance area is a lower level, with bi-fold doors opening onto a small garden, where traditional barbering services are provided for hair and beards. Upstairs are treatment rooms where clients are pampered with facials, massages, manicures and pedicures. And, along a corridor, a bespoke tailoring service offers made-to-measure suits for all occasions.

While not SE23 natives themselves, they are both South Londoners. Although neither Rohan nor Marie have a background in the beauty or grooming sectors, Rohan’s grandfather had expertise in tailoring. Marie worked with a shipping company, racking up air miles from trips to Asia and the Middle East, while Rohan was working around the clock in business development and local government.

However, a few years ago, things changed for them. Around the same time, both Marie and Rohan unexpectedly lost their fathers and, before that, Rohan had tragically lost his brother to suicide. These experiences led them to believe that London, or South London in particular, needed a space for men: “A safe place, where men could relax and get some pampering,” adds Marie, “a place where men could be looked after and be okay with that, and basically de-stress and lose the toxins we all collect in our bodies.”
Creating a haven for men is a difficult concept to discuss sometimes, particularly in today’s #MeToo climate. While the male suicide rate is at its lowest since the 1980s, the rate among men is over three times the rate among women. Whereas depression affects women at greater rates, men are much less likely to seek help for it. Rohan notes, “These treatments — looking and feeling better — can help with depression, with stress, and bring many positive health benefits.”

Suddenly, the name makes sense. Smoddy isn’t just about looking good, it’s about feeling good. Barbering, facial and other treatments, and great suits are just the foundation for this business.
Unsurprisingly, it is while discussing the future that Marie and Rohan are most animated. During our chat, Rohan and Marie often speak about redefining the norm for men, about creating a ‘space’ that allows men to look after themselves. In the next few months their business will be expanded to include yoga, meditation, and discussion groups on de-stressing and balancing home-working with home-life. Since the two of them have already hosted whisky and rum tastings, it will also include socialising events, such as local meet-ups for men who have moved into Forest Hill to help them build new, local friendships. For families, Marie and Rohan already offer 'father-and-son Sundays'.

While unspoken, their ethos is clear: Men who look after themselves — their mind and body — are better fathers, sons, workers and friends. It’s ‘redefining the norm’.

So now you know what Smoddy Sharp is. If you, or a loved one, want to be ‘smoddy’ too, then just knock on their door when you’re passing by. Either Marie or Rohan would be happy to tell you about their exciting adventure planned for Forest Hill and beyond!

Aga of Aga’s Little Deli

Very soon, Dartmouth Road will welcome a new enterprise from Aga Czarnota of Aga’s Little Deli. Jason Kee sat down one afternoon with Aga to talk about her new venture, her home in Poland and, of course, cheese.

Aga originally hails from Kazimierz Doly in eastern Poland. She describes a beautiful small town of 5,000 people. The town is largely untouched by war, and full of restaurants, bars and galleries. Aga studied journalism in Poland and began her career with the Gazeta Wyborcza newspaper covering a range of cultural issues, including arts and film. She came to London in 2003 to learn English while writing about London’s culture and arts scene for Gazeta Wyborcza back in Poland. She returned home for a short spell, but London was calling and Aga came back — first writing for, and helping to establish, Cooltura the weekly Polish language magazine in the UK. Culture appears to be in her genes, but it wasn’t long before food became Aga’s passion.

In 2005, Aga was also working at the Coach and Horses pub in Mayfair. While there she was given the opportunity to work in the Neal’s Yard Dairy Wholesale Arch in Bermondsey. Over the next three years Aga learned the cheese industry inside and out.
Aga speaks passionately about her time with Neal’s Yard, then leaving to work with Bermondsey cheese supremo Bill Oglethorpe, now the owner of the famous Kappacasein Dairy. It was while working with Oglethorpe that Aga no doubt got her taste both for retail, working three days a week in Borough Market, and for her sense of business, working on his accounts on other days.

After having worked with Oglethorpe for four years, Aga found herself at a meeting in the Sylvan Post pub which laid the ground work for the 2012 Forest Hill Society’s Food Fair in Forest Hill station’s forecourt. It’s remarkable to think that this short-lived enterprise has provided such long term benefits to the Forest Hill community. Not only did it bring about Aga’s Little Deli, but it was from here that Ruth and Nathan then opened the Forest Hill branch of the Butchery.

However, it wasn’t long before Aga decided to open her first shop. “We didn’t really think about what we were doing,” Aga said, “but the whole idea was to bring Borough Market to Forest Hill under one roof, and then see what happens.” She signed the contract for 49 Dartmouth Road in June 2012 and was open for business by September.

When asked why she chose Dartmouth Road, she said, “It was always to be Forest Hill.” This should be no surprise since Aga has always lived in this area. And now, with a family including two boys and one girl, her connections run deep. It is with understandable pride she speaks of the business she’s built and her contribution to the revival of Dartmouth Road.

Anyone who has visited Aga’s Little Deli during the past 6½ years will have seen changes here and there but the essence of the shop remains. Aga talks about the community it has created: “Customer have become friends with each other, and they have become our friends too.”

Aga’s Little Deli is a great Forest Hill success story. But one shop does not seem enough. Working with Anna Kokornacka, Aga will open a zero-waste shop and greengrocer in the former premises of Sugar Mountain at 57a Dartmouth Road. They collected the keys on March 1st and hope to open by the end of the month. The shop will champion zero waste with a range of dried goods — including beans, nuts and lentils — that will be available in bulk to take away in any size or volume. The shop will also feature “really great vegetables”, finally bringing a greengrocer back to Dartmouth Road. It will be the kind of shop Aga remembers from her youth in Karczmiska, providing a range of essentials food items for the local community.

Aga is keen to note this is only a start: “We want to see what people need, listen to our customers about what they really want.” She adds this may also include a range of vegan products though is quick to point out that, while not actually a vegan shop, it will be a meat-free one. All will be revealed in a few months.

So what of Aga’s Little Deli? When asked, Aga notes that her top three selling cheeses are Comte (her personal favourite), Colston Basset Stilton and Montgomery Cheddar. But she thinks more people should try her British goat’s cheeses like Ragstone and Tymsboro. While the fennel pork salami is the best-selling meat, she recommends Perinelli salami made close by, in Penge, by a guy from Forest Hill.

And what could make Dartmouth Road better? “Longer parking times and a fishmonger,” said Aga.

The Forest Hill Society wishes Aga well with the new venture.

Litter Tidy Up - 2nd Feb 2019

Volunteers from the Forest Hill Society will be tidying the green space beside Forest Hill Swimming Pool on Saturday, 2nd February, from 10am. We would welcome others to lend a hand and complete the task quickly.

Work is expected to last less than one hour.We have arranged to have litter pickers and garbage sacks to help us in this task, but we recommend that anybody joining in brings their own gloves.