This is the latest update from Southern Railway on the installation of gates at the foot of the stairs on Perry Vale:
Enabling works for the new gateline on platform two commenced on Wednesday 26 November and were expected to last for three weeks. During this period the side gate on platform 2 is closed. After that time limited access will be available. All works will be completed by late January and the gates will then go live. Once operational the gates will be left open unstaffed from 21.00hr to end of service as the entrance will be remotely closed by our control centre.
03 December 2008
December Events in Forest Hill and Honor Oak
23 CLUB
Tuesday 23rd December, 8pm - Christmas Dinner, Italian style at The Old Bank, 76-78 Honor Oak Park, SE23 1DY. Telephone 8291 1738
This restaurant is close to Honor Oak Park Station - a bank converted into a restaurant before the credit crunch! As always, please book directly with the restaurant and mention you're with the 23 Club or Forest Hill Society so they know to seat you with everyone else. We do urge you to book as early as possible for this one. See you there!
CHRISTMAS EVENTS
Saturday 6th December, 12-4pm - Forest Hill festive activities - including an appearance by Father Christmas and his REAL reindeer. Foresters Arms, Perry Vale.
Sunday 7th December, 3-6pm Tree Dressing Day at the Devonshire Road Nature reserve - make your own lanterns and paint glass lanterns for the procession of light. Make Green Man masks to take home and enjoy music and story telling.
£2 donation per person to cover costs. Please note that this event takes place during the hours of darkness. Come prepared with warm clothes and a torch. Contact devonshireroadnature@yahoo.co.uk
Friday 12th December, 5-7pm - Honor Oak Christmas celebrations - carols, switching on of Christmas lights, craft market. Opposite Honor Oak Park train station.
Sunday December 14th, 12-5pm - upstairs and downstairs at The HOB (opposite Forest Hill Station). Ceramics, photography, handmade retro toys, glass, textiles, handmade bags and more besides. Free entry.
Sun 14 Dec 3-6pm - Horniman Carols in the bandstand in the picturesque setting of these award-winning Gardens. Enjoy performances from the English Baroque Choir and the Crystal Palace Band, carols, hot-roasted chestnuts, toy stalls, hot and cold refreshments and free Santa's grotto. Free admission.
02 December 2008
A member writes...
Is Forest Hill becoming a target for developers with grand designs? Recent experience suggests so. And the planning system is seemingly weighted in favour of the developer once planning permission is granted.
Last year one owner obtained planning permission for the redevelopment of half of a semi-detached house that is sharply out of character with the remainder of a modest 1930s street. The many objectors assumed that as this was similar to his earlier application, which had been rejected due to size and inappropriate design, that this would meet the same fate. Indeed, half of the Planning Committee agreed that this should be the case. Despite the development being three times the size of the original scheme and an over-dominant feature on the skyline, including an external staircase turret, this time Lewisham considered it to be aesthetically pleasing and respecting the local character of the neighbourhood. Worse still the developer has planning permission to demolish his half of the semi-detached, and rebuild. A nightmare for the adjoining neighbours, who fear their house, as well as their sanity, will be damaged.
Unlike the developer who has a right to appeal a Council decision to refuse an application, residents cannot appeal a decision to approve. And like Robert the Bruce determined developers can try and try again until the Council, who may be fearful of mounting costs, concedes. We continued to question Lewisham on their about turn. How much did the ‘greening-up’ of the application affect this? And what about the applicant’s expectations that this would feature on Channel 4’s Grand Designs? Naturally we could not suggest that these were the reasons, but with no satisfactory answer to many other issues, we took legal advice, and applied to the Courts to overturn the Council’s decision. Judicial Review is not for the faint hearted, and ultimately we had to withdraw from the chase as the financial risks became too great and we could not match the coffers of Lewisham. So this is no David and Goliath ending.
We asked central government why the system was so unfair. They replied that it was up to the local authority to act in general public interest and that our elected councillors must take into account the local view and justify these decisions to their electorate. With our three ward councillors and local residents association behind us at the planning committee meeting, and many others objectors, local democracy seems to have failed us.
01 December 2008
New Blog on the History of Forest Hill and Sydenham
Some great photos and history from Steve Grindlay on this new blog site: http://sydenhamforesthillhistory.blogspot.com
29 November 2008
Tyson Road Objection
The Forest Hill Society is opposing the latest planning application for Tyson Road which was mentioned here previously. Full details of the objection can be read here. Some of the key reasons for rejecting this application are:
Please feel free to use the text from the Forest Hill Society objection and add your own opinions.
In related news there was an article in the South London Press last week about this site.
- Over-development - 76 flats in a backland site
- Loss of Biodiversity
- Vehicle and pedestrian accessibility
- Flood Risk
- Crime Prevention
- Grounds and gardens that do not meet Lewisham Council policy
Please feel free to use the text from the Forest Hill Society objection and add your own opinions.
In related news there was an article in the South London Press last week about this site.
24 November 2008
76 flats on Green Space - no thanks!
Once more, Loromah Estates have submitted a planning application (no. 08/70207) to build large blocks of flats on the green, wooded space behind Tyson Rd and the Christian Fellowship Centre on Honor Oak Road. You can see photos of the site on this website
http://www.flickr.com/photos/The last time developers submitted an application to build on the site, local residents mounted a vigorous campaign to preserve this important green space and almost 200 people sent objections. The Council refused planning permission saying the plan to build 84 flats on the site was too dense, poorly designed and out of keeping with the area.
Now the developers have made some small concessions (only 76 flats this time!) and are trying again but residents still feel this is over-development which will have a big impact on local roads and schools. They're hoping to encourage even more people to send objections to the Council this time. To find out more, email the residents' group on se23openspace@hotmail.co.uk. You can also sign the online petition on
http://www.gopetition.co.uk/The Forest Hill Society and other local groups are also sending the Council detailed objections which will be posted here soon.
35 Sunderland Road - Protected Tree Preserved
Following the objection from the Forest Hill Society, the application to fell the eucalyptus tree has been refused on these grounds:
"The Eucalyptus tree is of high visual amenity value from both the near and distant realms.
The report submitted with the application discounts any damage to the building by the
tree. ... The Council has no objection to crown reduce the Eucalyptus tree T1 by 25%."
Well done to Lewisham Planning Department for making a good decision.
"The Eucalyptus tree is of high visual amenity value from both the near and distant realms.
The report submitted with the application discounts any damage to the building by the
tree. ... The Council has no objection to crown reduce the Eucalyptus tree T1 by 25%."
Well done to Lewisham Planning Department for making a good decision.
21 November 2008
23 Club dates for your Diary
Sunday November 23 at 1pm – classic & modern British; world
All Inn One, 53 Perry Vale SE23 2NE Phone: 8699 3311
This get-together is at lunchtime and the pub is child friendly. It is near Forest Hill Station.
Tuesday December 23 at 8pm – Christmas Dinner,Italian style
The Old Bank, 76-78 Honor Oak Park SE23 1DY Phone 8291 1738
Close to Honor Oak Park Station – a bank converted into a restaurant before the credit crunch!
Friday January 23 at 8pm – Burns Night theme evening
The Honor Oak pub, 1 St German’s Road SE23 1RH Phone 8690 8606
More details of the Burns Night will be available nearer the time – there are rumours of haggis (including vegetarian ones) and whisky tasting!
Monday February 23 at 8pm –Chinese
Tse’s, 54 London Road SE23 3HF Phone 8291 0019
An opportunity to enjoy the Chinese New Year celebrations!
All Inn One, 53 Perry Vale SE23 2NE Phone: 8699 3311
This get-together is at lunchtime and the pub is child friendly. It is near Forest Hill Station.
Tuesday December 23 at 8pm – Christmas Dinner,Italian style
The Old Bank, 76-78 Honor Oak Park SE23 1DY Phone 8291 1738
Close to Honor Oak Park Station – a bank converted into a restaurant before the credit crunch!
Friday January 23 at 8pm – Burns Night theme evening
The Honor Oak pub, 1 St German’s Road SE23 1RH Phone 8690 8606
More details of the Burns Night will be available nearer the time – there are rumours of haggis (including vegetarian ones) and whisky tasting!
Monday February 23 at 8pm –Chinese
Tse’s, 54 London Road SE23 3HF Phone 8291 0019
An opportunity to enjoy the Chinese New Year celebrations!
20 November 2008
Oystergate continued - Response from Southern Railway
Response from Southern Railways:
"Southern has been reviewing arrangements for closure of the gates at Forest Hill Station. You will be pleased to learn that the decision has been taken not to close this entrance until after the last train has departed. Closure will be undertaken remotely from our control centre.
The less good news is that the gate will be closed from the middle of next week while the new entrance and gate line is constructed. It would not be safe to allow passengers access to what will in effect be a building site for several weeks. Posters are being prepared for display at the station to provide details of the works."
The Forest Hill Society is pleased that the barriers will remain open during all hours of operation but we are disappointed that the safety concerns have not been addressed. Hopefully we will hear more from them soon.
"Southern has been reviewing arrangements for closure of the gates at Forest Hill Station. You will be pleased to learn that the decision has been taken not to close this entrance until after the last train has departed. Closure will be undertaken remotely from our control centre.
The less good news is that the gate will be closed from the middle of next week while the new entrance and gate line is constructed. It would not be safe to allow passengers access to what will in effect be a building site for several weeks. Posters are being prepared for display at the station to provide details of the works."
The Forest Hill Society is pleased that the barriers will remain open during all hours of operation but we are disappointed that the safety concerns have not been addressed. Hopefully we will hear more from them soon.
17 November 2008
Oystergate continued - Letter to Southern Railway
Southern Railway once again have plans to close the Perry Vale exit after 8pm and to install ticket barriers close to the foot of the stairs at this exit. The Forest Hill Society has written to object to these plans, see below:
To: ian.rashbrook@southernrailway.com
Cc: Cllr John Russell, Cllr John Paschoud, Steve Bullock, Jim Dowd MP, Passenger Focus, London TravelWatch, Lewisham Head of Transport.
Dear Ian,
I was hoping that in the last two weeks you may have had an opportunity to respond to my previous email. As you will know the planning committee accepted the plans for the new ticket barriers at Forest Hill Station as they believed there were no planning grounds on which to object to this application.
However, the Forest Hill Society continue to have significant concerns about the plans for the new barriers at Perry Vale, specifically on the grounds of passenger safety and access to the station outside peak hours.
As I mentioned below the previous closure of this exit, the main exit during the evenings, prompted an outcry from local people, Jim Dowd raised the issue in Parliament, a council motion was raise by Councillor Russell which was passed, and a meeting at Forest Hill station with Mayor Sir Steve Bullock, Jim Dowd, representatives of the Forest Hill Society, London TravelWatch, Southern Railway, and London Rail.
It was confirmed by Southern Railway's representatives at the planning committee meeting that the gates will be shuttered and locked from around 8pm every evening causing major inconvenience to people living in Forest Hill. Already many less able-bodied people are unwilling to use Forest Hill station for their journeys from London Bridge, preferring to alight at Sydenham and get the bus back again (not a quick journey). For half of rail users who live on the east of the station they will be forced to go up a flight of steps, across the footbridge, down another flight of steps, out of the station and round WHSmith, down another flight of steps, though a badly lit underpass, and then up another small flights of steps, when they can currently use the single set of steps that you will be locking up in the evenings.
The planning officer responsible for the case has confirmed that a risk assessment has been undertaken, including a passenger count, but that details could not be provided to him "as it is an internal Network Rail document". I do not believe any such headcounts have been undertaken since the plans for barriers on platform 1, when headcounts and passenger flows were calculated by closing this exit. I believe that any modelling that was done based on this research cannot be used to apply to the Perry Vale exit, which gets more than 50% of the traffic from mid afternoon until after midnight. I would urge you to make any such documents available so that everybody can understand why you believe there is no safety risk - I am sure that there are ways to obtain these documents (at least by some of those copied on this email).
During rush hour the barriers present a danger to passengers due to the distance of the gates to the bottom of the steep stairs, going round a corner, and all in poor lighting conditions. In the event of one or two Oyster or paper tickets failing to function quickly this will lead to a rapid backlog of people round the corner and up the steps. In wet or icy conditions, passengers all have umbrellas open - blocking the dim light available, and restricting access to the furthest ticket barriers from the stairs. These conditions will inevitably lead to slips and injuries to rail passengers, something which should be a major concern when making such changes to access.
I have already noticed that there are rarely staff at the Perry Vale exit after 6pm during the height of rush hour services. Your argument that these plans are about revenue protect simply do not match with the service that you currently provide. The level of manning by revenue protection officers would suggest that when ticket barriers are installed we can expect closure of these gates during the main evening rush hour.
I believe it is in the interest of Southern Rail to resolve this situation by changing the plans for gates at the station. There is space for you to install ticket barriers further from the steps, there is another option of placing level access ticket barriers to provide a new exit at the Perry Vale car park, where there is plenty of space for such a structure.
Barriers that are installed must be open during all hours of operation until TfL take over the running of the station in September 09, when they will provide this level of service. If this cannot be achieved with the gates locked then they should be left open or a temporary alternative exit provided at this side of the station.
I would ask that a meeting take place at Forest Hill Station, after 5pm on a weekday in the next couple of months, so that you and John Oliver can understand the difficulties presented by the scheme that has been drawn up for one of the busiest stations on your network, and I would welcome your suggestion on another busy station that I can visit during rush hours to see how the positioning of gates at the base of steps will work in practise. As far as I can recall there are no such barriers anywhere in central London on the overground or underground systems, but I have not personally visited them all.
I hope you understand that the Forest Hill Society does welcome the introduction of ticket barriers for revenue protection and for the advantages of using pre-pay Oyster cards in the future. However, safety and accessibility are our primary concerns and we hope that you also take these concerns seriously.
I can only apologise to all those I have copied in that I have once again had to involve you in this issue when we thought that we had resolved the situation back in July. I hope that we can continue to count on your support to maintain the safety and limited accessibility that we do have for passengers at Forest Hill.
To: ian.rashbrook@southernrailway.
Cc: Cllr John Russell, Cllr John Paschoud, Steve Bullock, Jim Dowd MP, Passenger Focus, London TravelWatch, Lewisham Head of Transport.
Dear Ian,
I was hoping that in the last two weeks you may have had an opportunity to respond to my previous email. As you will know the planning committee accepted the plans for the new ticket barriers at Forest Hill Station as they believed there were no planning grounds on which to object to this application.
However, the Forest Hill Society continue to have significant concerns about the plans for the new barriers at Perry Vale, specifically on the grounds of passenger safety and access to the station outside peak hours.
As I mentioned below the previous closure of this exit, the main exit during the evenings, prompted an outcry from local people, Jim Dowd raised the issue in Parliament, a council motion was raise by Councillor Russell which was passed, and a meeting at Forest Hill station with Mayor Sir Steve Bullock, Jim Dowd, representatives of the Forest Hill Society, London TravelWatch, Southern Railway, and London Rail.
It was confirmed by Southern Railway's representatives at the planning committee meeting that the gates will be shuttered and locked from around 8pm every evening causing major inconvenience to people living in Forest Hill. Already many less able-bodied people are unwilling to use Forest Hill station for their journeys from London Bridge, preferring to alight at Sydenham and get the bus back again (not a quick journey). For half of rail users who live on the east of the station they will be forced to go up a flight of steps, across the footbridge, down another flight of steps, out of the station and round WHSmith, down another flight of steps, though a badly lit underpass, and then up another small flights of steps, when they can currently use the single set of steps that you will be locking up in the evenings.
The planning officer responsible for the case has confirmed that a risk assessment has been undertaken, including a passenger count, but that details could not be provided to him "as it is an internal Network Rail document". I do not believe any such headcounts have been undertaken since the plans for barriers on platform 1, when headcounts and passenger flows were calculated by closing this exit. I believe that any modelling that was done based on this research cannot be used to apply to the Perry Vale exit, which gets more than 50% of the traffic from mid afternoon until after midnight. I would urge you to make any such documents available so that everybody can understand why you believe there is no safety risk - I am sure that there are ways to obtain these documents (at least by some of those copied on this email).
During rush hour the barriers present a danger to passengers due to the distance of the gates to the bottom of the steep stairs, going round a corner, and all in poor lighting conditions. In the event of one or two Oyster or paper tickets failing to function quickly this will lead to a rapid backlog of people round the corner and up the steps. In wet or icy conditions, passengers all have umbrellas open - blocking the dim light available, and restricting access to the furthest ticket barriers from the stairs. These conditions will inevitably lead to slips and injuries to rail passengers, something which should be a major concern when making such changes to access.
I have already noticed that there are rarely staff at the Perry Vale exit after 6pm during the height of rush hour services. Your argument that these plans are about revenue protect simply do not match with the service that you currently provide. The level of manning by revenue protection officers would suggest that when ticket barriers are installed we can expect closure of these gates during the main evening rush hour.
I believe it is in the interest of Southern Rail to resolve this situation by changing the plans for gates at the station. There is space for you to install ticket barriers further from the steps, there is another option of placing level access ticket barriers to provide a new exit at the Perry Vale car park, where there is plenty of space for such a structure.
Barriers that are installed must be open during all hours of operation until TfL take over the running of the station in September 09, when they will provide this level of service. If this cannot be achieved with the gates locked then they should be left open or a temporary alternative exit provided at this side of the station.
I would ask that a meeting take place at Forest Hill Station, after 5pm on a weekday in the next couple of months, so that you and John Oliver can understand the difficulties presented by the scheme that has been drawn up for one of the busiest stations on your network, and I would welcome your suggestion on another busy station that I can visit during rush hours to see how the positioning of gates at the base of steps will work in practise. As far as I can recall there are no such barriers anywhere in central London on the overground or underground systems, but I have not personally visited them all.
I hope you understand that the Forest Hill Society does welcome the introduction of ticket barriers for revenue protection and for the advantages of using pre-pay Oyster cards in the future. However, safety and accessibility are our primary concerns and we hope that you also take these concerns seriously.
I can only apologise to all those I have copied in that I have once again had to involve you in this issue when we thought that we had resolved the situation back in July. I hope that we can continue to count on your support to maintain the safety and limited accessibility that we do have for passengers at Forest Hill.
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