Jim Dowd talks in Parliament about Gates at Forest Hill Station

Jim Dowd MP yesterday spoke in parliament about the issue of gates at Forest Hill and Sydenham. His recommendation is in line with the proposals from the Forest Hill Society. See extract below:

With change comes difficulty, as everybody knows. New stations are being fitted with the Oyster card system, which has been hugely successful on the underground network and on London buses. Extending it to the national rail network will be to the advantage of passengers throughout the area and the country, wherever it is adopted. Bringing in the Oyster card service means bringing in gates, which is where the current problem exists. There is a plan at Sydenham and Forest Hill stations to introduce over two phases and by the end of this year automatic gates, which will be brought on line while the Southern Trains franchise is still in existence.

Unfortunately, this is causing many of my constituents considerable inconvenience and has made their lives difficult because of restrictions on the up service from Sydenham and the down service from Forest Hill, requiring people to go to the other side of the station and back over footbridge to get to the service they want. For people with buggies or luggage or with mobility difficulties, that is extremely inconvenient. Everybody understands why the new system is being brought in, but it cannot be right to inconvenience the law-abiding and ticket-buying majority in the hope of catching the fare-evading minority. My constituents certainly do not see it that way.

Fortunately, the elected mayor of Lewisham, Sir Steve Bullock, arranged for me and him to meet senior Southern Trains managers at Forest Hill and Sydenham stations last Friday and, more particularly, for the managers to meet a number of constituents—their customers, passengers, or whatever they are called these days—and to hear from them first hand precisely how difficult their lives have been made by the lack of co-ordination in introducing the programme. As I say, nobody disputes the need to reduce fare evasion and to improve security by ensuring that only genuine passengers have access to both trains and stations. My constituents would agree with that proposition.

However, as the full scheme can be implemented by the end of this year, we are asking Southern Trains—it has agreed to consider this—to revert to the original position of unguarded gates until such time as it can bring in the whole scheme. My constituents will then be able to have access to both the up and down platforms at all times of the day with minimum inconvenience. I hope and expect Southern Trains to respond positively in a short space of time.

South Central Network Franchise Consultation

On behalf of the Forest Hill Society, which represents passengers in the Forest Hill and Honor Oak Park areas, I would like to respond to the South Central Franchise Consultation document. Overall we are pleased with the recommendations of this document which recognises the high level of demand for services from our area and the need to increase the length of trains prior to any rebuilding at London Bridge station related to Thameslink services.

Summary of Recommendations:

1. 12 car trains by the end of 2011
2. Off-peak services to Charing Cross
3. Improved access at Forest Hill station from both sides of the railway
4. No more 2 car trains on the Crystal Palace loop
5. Longer trains on evening and weekend services from London Bridge to Forest Hill
6. Improved off-peak access to Gatwick and Brighton

Length of trains during peak hours

Page 5 refers to 10 car trains running through Sydenham (Forest Hill) from late 2011, whilst page 38 talks about 10 car trains from 2015 with reference to the possibility of 12 car trains being further investigated.

With the expected reduction in services to London Bridge on this line in 2012 it is vital that the 2011 date is confirmed in the final version of the franchise document and we believe that it would be best to introduce 12 car trains at this time rather than just 10 car trains. There are two reasons why this is the best course of action:

1. Extending platforms to 12 car rather than 10 car will add little extra cost and avoid further extensions in the future, required for the Thameslink service and to meet ever increasing demand on the Forest Hill route. For this reason it makes economic sense to upgrade the platforms to 12 car trains rather than only to 10 car trains.
2. The RUS recommends in sections 7.2.5 and 8.3.3 that services are increased to 12 car trains to account for passenger demand when train numbers are reduced in 2012.

We hope that the franchise agreement will take account of the recommendations of the South London RUS and provide 12 car services through Forest Hill at the earliest possible opportunity.

Off peak services to central London

Currently passengers in Forest Hill and Honor Oak Park benefit from direct services from Charing Cross during evenings and weekends. This service was recognised in the draft RUS as being a well utilised off-peak service and provides significant benefits from passengers travelling home from the West End during evenings and weekend.

At present plans are in place to stop running these off-peak services from the beginning of the new franchise. Whilst we understand that this may be the most convenient option for considering the franchising process, it is at the expense of passengers on this line who today benefit from this well utilised off-peak service.

The South London RUS does not go into details of off-peak services, but option 20.4 referred to continuing this off-peak service. Option 20.4 is not dealt with in chapter 5, but in appendix A (page 145) ‘Further investigation recommend regarding off peak services’. These investigations should be regarded as part of the franchising agreement if there is any hope to keep this well utilised service. Our recommendation is to keep this half-hourly service running to Charing Cross off-peak but not at peak times. During peak times we recognise that there is not capacity to take this service but at off-peak times there is capacity today and there will continue to be capacity for the full duration of the franchise period.

With or without the continued service from Charing Cross, the services from London Bridge are often overcrowded at weekends due to short trains (often 4 car). Accurate figures are hard for us to judge regarding the length of trains or the overcrowding on these services, but we would ask that the franchising process look at this issue and consider running longer trains during the off-peak periods – evenings and weekends.

Station Management and gating policy

We welcome the transfer of management for the stations at Forest Hill and Honor Oak Park to Transport for London and hope that this will result in improvements to the station.

In recent months Southern Railways, under instruction form TfL, have begun a gating programme that has already impeded access to stations at Sydenham and Forest Hill. It is an unhappy irony that these changes are being made at the same time as the rail industry is working to improve access to stations throughout the network, including Forest Hill station in 2009-2011.

In the case of Forest Hill station the southbound platform no longer has a direct entrance or exit before 3pm, forcing all passengers to cross over the footbridge. For customers with limited mobility living on the east side of the station they are now forced to use 4 sets of stairs (under the underpass and then over the footbridge) rather than the single set of stairs which they needed to negotiate until June 2008. For many people with limited mobility or with pushchairs this has significantly reduced accessibility at Forest Hill station and many now drive to Sydenham or Honor Oak Park with better accessibility.

We have asked for a number of different options to be considered, however, Southern Railways whilst recognising the value of these proposals have failed to take advantage of these suggestions. We hope that this attitude to customer service and public consultation will be reflected when considering any bid from this company.

Moving forward, this responsibility will pass directly to TfL rather than the franchise holder but we hope that in assigning this responsibility that the access to stations is made clear to TfL who have been complicit in the gating scheme that has been implemented. In the case of Forest Hill the importance of the Perry Vale exit must be recognised, an exit that is used by more customers in the evening peak than the main station. It has been recognised that an entrance in the Perry Vale car park would be the best solution to accessibility issues at Forest Hill, but until that can be implemented we believe that the gate must be available (either open or on a buzzer) at all times that trains are running.

Crystal Palace - Victoria Loop

We welcome morning peak services from London Bridge via Forest Hill to Victoria as bringing an important route into better use whilst avoiding the centre of London and congestion on the Jubilee and District Line.

At present some of the off-peak services from Victoria to London Bridge via Crystal Palace run as 2 car trains, but these can be very busy during early evenings. We would like to see a minimum of 4 car trains on this route during off-peak times, with a minimum of 8 car trains during peak period (rising to 10 or 12 car trains by 2012).

Services to Brighton and Gatwick from Forest Hill

Changes planned to services from Forest Hill will mean that there are no longer direct trains to East Croydon making travelling to Gatwick and Brighton from South London significantly harder. Passengers will have to change at Norwood Junction and again at East Croydon for trains south.

We would welcome solutions that would allow for some off-peak services to take customers to Gatwick airport without 2 changes of train, possibly by stopping more Gatwick services at Norwood Junction to allow for interchange or alternatively running services from Forest Hill to East Croydon during off-peak times. Without improvements to connections from South London to Gatwick airport, there will be more people travelling by road to Gatwick airport rather than by train. With the potential of the South Central and Gatwick Express franchise being run by a single company, it should be possible to provide better connections between various services.

For Gatwick the priority would be daytime, off-peak services, when most of the flights are leaving and arriving. For Brighton we would like to see weekend services that allow South Londoners to travel directly to the coast by train. With more flats in London being built car free, the rising cost of petrol, and warmer summers, a day out to the sea by train could become popular once again. However, it is important that these are fast/semi-fast services from Croydon to Brighton. These services would be popular with families, students, and anybody else looking for a chance to escape the city for a day or a weekend. Ticket deals including overnight accommodation, similar to those available to Eurostar customer would also make it easy for people to spend a night and benefit further from the extent of the South Central franchise area.

Pools Consultation Begins

Lewisham Council has begun the consultation on the pools redevelopment and are presenting three options for your consideration. To take part in the consultation go to the Council website.

Please take a look at the different layouts proposed for the three options and complete the feedback form at the end. It is very important that pool users and local residents have their say in this important site in Forest Hill town centre.

The Forest Hill Society does not, at this stage, have a preferred option as the consultation should provide every individual an opportunity to express his/her own opinion. However, a few issues to consider when looking at all three options:

• How many pools do you want?
• What other leisure facilities do you want and is there enough room?
• Is the mass and height of the buildings right for the site?
• What is your opinion of the design of the building? How might it be improved?
  
• Does the proposal include the right amount of residential property?
• Is there the right amount of public space in the area?

As well as taking part in the consultation we would encourage you to express your views on se23.com.

Urban Garden Party in Stanstead Road

After lots of hard work by local residents, the Stanstead Road community garden is almost ready for it's official opening. To celebrate the occasion there will be a party on Sunday 27th July, 2-5pm with a special guest appearance by local celebrity, Sarah-Jane Honeywell from CBeebies. There will be face-painting, balloon-art, stalls, games, food and drink, a tombola and guided planting sessions led by Groundwork. It's all happening outside Travis Perkins' main entrance, next to Shannons Garden Centre on Stanstead Road, SE23 1BS Sarah-Jane will unveil the plaque at 3.30pm

Bird's Eye view from Multimap showing the site prior to any work taking place.

Forest Hill Pools Exhibition and Consultation

From the Lewisham website:

On 12 July, there will be an exhibition of the design options for Forest Hill Pools on display at Peoples Day in Mountsfield Park, SE6.

On Friday 18 July 3pm – 7pm and Saturday 19 July 9am – 2pm there will be displays of the proposed options and designs for the new pool facility staffed by Architects and Council Officers who will be able to answer questions by local residents about the new development proposals. Feedback forms will also be available for residents to make comments and suggestions. The displays will be sited outside WH Smiths/Forest Hill Station on Devonshire Road/end of Dartmouth Road, SE23.

From Monday 21 July until Friday 8 August there will be an exhibition at Forest Hill Library, Dartmouth Road, SE23 3HZ (0208 699 2065). Feedback forms will be available at the exhibition.

There is also an online survey for residents and users of the pool to register their views from Monday 14 July to 8 August.

A range of other consultation will be taking place through specific focus groups throughout this period.

Historical features

A range of historical features from the façade and the building will be used within the new design to reflect the heritage of the area. An Historical Surveyor will be appointed to identify items of interest and the items will be isolated and stored for the build programme.

Demolition

Demolition of the site including Louise House, is scheduled for early Autumn.
More information is available regarding the pools consultation at www.lewisham.gov.uk/foresthillpools

The barriers go up in Forest Hill

This week has seen the new system of ticket barriers and shut gates at Forest Hill. Passengers at Sydenham have been suffering now for a month from limited access to platform 1 at the station and now Forest Hill has limited access to platform 2. The ticket barriers themselves are not a big problem, although they can lead to congestion getting into the station, the real problem is the 'secondary' gates which, at certain times of day, can be used more than the main entrance/exit.

Southern Rail have listened to some of the concerns of the Forest Hill Society (most notably leaving the Perry Vale exit open after 8pm) but the introduction of these barriers has been done with little consideration of how it affects passengers in the local area.

Mayor Steve Bullock has invited the Managing Directors of Southern Railways and London Rail to Forest Hill station at 5:30pm on Friday 18th July. In his words "...you must be aware of the anger that is being expressed by your fare paying customers who use Forest Hill and Sydenham stations. The installation of barriers is causing delays and inconvenience of a large scale as well as putting those individuals who have mobility problems of any kind in a very difficult position."

Why should commuters have to queue for up to 8 minutes^(*) in the rain to show a damp piece of card to ticket inspectors?
Why should the Perry Vale exit be shut before 3pm but open after 8pm?
Why rush ahead with ticket barriers when there are better solutions?

The Forest Hill Society recommends the following course of action:

1. The Perry Vale gate should be open 24 hours a day, either manned or unmanned. It should not be closed again unless a buzzer is installed for passengers with limited mobility
2. Southern and TfL need to install automatic ticket barriers on the Perry Vale side of the station either at the foot of the stair or at a new entrance at the Perry Vale car park
3. Long term the Perry Vale exit needs to be fully accessible and the easiest way to achieve this is to create a new exit in the car park in Perry Vale, just a few metres from the existing platform
   

If you are around Forest Hill station next Friday at 5:30pm look out for Steve Bullock and possibly some railway officials and tell them what you think of what they have done to Forest Hill station. Recommended train to Forest Hill from London Bridge 17:25 - a service that is always busy and the majority of people are travelling to Forest Hill or Sydenham.

Please post comments regarding the changes at Forest Hill and we can pass them on to Steve Bullock and the rail authorities.

* Reference Sydenham Town Forum

Forest Hill Central revised plans rejected

The Forest Hill Society opposed a planning application from Berkeley Homes to change 10 of the two bed apartments into 14 1 bed apartments in the Forest Hill Central development. This proposal would have doubled the number of 1 bed apartments (of which we have seen many built in Forest Hill area in the recent years), and reduce the number of 2 bed apartments.

The council planning department had recommended accepting this change in the development but the planning committee considered the application and the objections from the Forest Hill Society and decided to refuse this planning application.

Hopefully now Berkeley Homes will reduce the price of the apartments to a price more appropriate to the market in Forest Hill. £395,000 for a two bed apartment (even a very nice newly built apartment) is much higher than similar properties in Forest Hill and with prices expected to fall in the next year they cannot justify asking such amounts for these new flats.

Our thanks to the committee for their careful consideration of this application and reaching the right decision for Forest Hill.

11th June Pools Stakeholders Meeting

Below are notes taken by representatives from the Forest Hill Society and Sydenham Society at the recent stakeholders meeting regarding Forest Hill Pool:

Councillor Chris Best (Chair) opened the meeting addressing both Sydenham and Forest Hill Societies indicating Lewisham Council's displeasure at misinformation on both town websites and stating that Lewisham Council was committed to no decision to demolish present Victorian buildings until initial design work for a rebuild had been agreed by Mayor and Cabinet – at the end of the meeting it was agreed that the earliest likely decision would not be taken until the September Mayor and Cabinet meeting.

A representative from HLM architects was introduced and he ran through the process that HLM had used for designing a new pools/leisure centre at Forest Hill.

HLM’s intentions were to create a sense of place respecting the Library setting and the relationship any new building would have on the Library. This would be a high visibility site and sensitivity would be required. They were aware of the historic importance of the site.

The presentation of the three options began with a statement about commonality. The entrance of all options would face the Town centre, not Dartmouth Road and there would be an approach cut through the grass area in front of Salcombe House to form a green linear path. There would be a public amenity space/square in front of the entrance. The service strategy for the pools would be from Thorpewood Avenue.

Option 1

• one 25 m pool, no housing
• gym
• 2 fitness studios
• space for a cafe

Option 2

• 3000 sq m building, 2 storeys
• 25m pool plus additional training pool
• gym, 2 fitness studios, space for a cafe
• new square to station side of building (i.e. opposite side to library)
• new housing along line of Salcombe House: 25-30 units
• potential to expand parking underneath

This building would have the main entrance and foyer in the direction of the station, with a green approach and new public space. The frontage would sweep round to end in line with the library. The pools would be at the front of the building, with changing and access to dry facilities kept separate. Although two storeys, it would be low rise and not go above the lines of the existing housing behind in Derby Hill Crescent.

Option 3

• 3500-4000 sq m leisure/community/library space
• 25 m and training pools, plus maximum community space
• gym, 2 fitness studios, space for a cafe etc
• building form “respects” library
• “vibrant” public square
• feature building: "gateway" to Forest Hill
• potential for sustainable housing and/or mixed housing: 60 units
• pull-in bus parking along front on Dartmouth Road

This building would have a similar footprint to Option 2, but with several (up to 7) storeys of housing on the Dartmouth Road side over the foyer area. Also significantly increased community space over 2 storeys at the front, with the possibility of another entrance/access to the library at the corner where the two frontages meet.

Discussion:
Housing over the leisure centre foyer: 7 storeys could well be overpowering, the road is fairly narrow there so would impinge uopn the shops and residences opposite. Reply: is intended to be a bit narrow to make a “gateway”. Hilary: but if this is a gateway to Forest Hill it puts the library outside! The building seems to “turn its back” on the library. Other comment: why do we need a gateway? Architects like “iconic” buildings, and there was some discussion as to whether that was what the people of Forest Hill would want. Is 7 storyes too much? Would it make the leisure centre subservient to the residential aspects?

Use of the community space: the architects said they were deliberately being vage and nonprescrpitive about this. The space could contatin what we wanted. Pat Trembath mentioned the need for fairly large meetings rooms in FH. Chris Best agreed we need a room that would accommodate about 100. The studio space might be flexiable, and perhaps could be used for meetings too.

The development partner may want or demand parking, which is why the architects leave open the possibilty of underground parking. Hilary pointed out that this is very expensive, and would affect the finances and be likely to reduce the amount of cross subsidy money available for the leisure centre facilities.

The Tewkesbury Lodge representative said a survey of their residents emphasised the desire for leisure facilities in Forest Hill, we already have a lot of new residential buidlings. Cllr Best explained that building elsewhere in Forest Hill was by private developers, and the the Council needs receipts from building on this site to be able to afford anything more than a very basic building (i.e. Option 1).

Consultation

It was felt important that the recent history of the Pools be included in the information given including the results of the previous consultation, and the surveys. Drawings of the streetscape would need to be included to show how the facade might look, as many FH residents are unhappy about proposed changes to this. A leaflet to all residents explaining the history of the pools and the need to redevelop will be delivered to all households.

Timetable:

• July – consultation (probably exhibition in the library, public meetings)
• August – Stakeholder group meet again
• September – go to Mayor and cabinet – no demolition before this

Access to Forest Hill Station gets worse

We all know how difficult it is to use our busy station if you’re disabled or pushing a pram. But the situation is getting a lot worse for all of us. Southern Railways is closing the gate on the Perry Vale side of the station for much of the day.

Southern Railway’s original plan was to close the gates in early June, opening them only between 3pm and 8pm when ticket inspectors would manually check everybody's ticket as they left the station. Outside of these hours, the gate would be locked to prevent people evading their fare.

The Forest Hill Society has managed to get a small concession from Southern which will allow the gate to remain open after 8pm when the station is unmanned. But this failed to appease people at the General Meeting who were shocked that anyone from the Perry Vale side travelling southbound in the morning would need to use four sets of stairs to get to the platform!

The Chairman of the Forest Hill Society, Michael Abrahams, has written to Southern Railways (the letter was copied to Len Dowd MP, Len Duvall MLA, London Travel watch and local councillors) to draw attention to the problems caused by their plans.

Extract of letter to Southern Railways

At a recent General Meeting of the Forest Hill Society, we listened to views of local people who make use of Forest Hill station and, while they were pleased that the gates would continue to be open after 3pm, there was an overwhelming feeling that shutting the Perry Vale entrance before 3pm was not in the interests of passengers. For many passengers heading south, towards Croydon and Victoria before 3pm this will mean they will need to use four sets of stairs to access platform 2, at a time when we are meant to be seeing improvements in accessibility. This retrograde step goes against accessibility improvements that are more widely planned on the railway.

Until a new exit can be built to the Perry Vale Car Park, the best solution for the accessibility and safety of passengers at Forest Hill is to leave the gate open on the southbound platform, as it is at present.

There are similar gate closures at Sydenham Station so, once again, we shall be joining forces to campaign against this reduced access.

Michael and the new Chair of the Sydenham Society, Tim Lund, have written jointly to Jim Dowd MP asking him to raise the matter at the Department for Transport, urging ministers to recognise that access to stations is a vital element of renewing franchises.

There is some discussion of opening up a new exit into Perry Vale Car Park which would avoid the steps completely. One of the problems with this plan, however, is the gradient which is, apparently, too steep for wheelchairs. It is, however, an option which the Forest Hill Society would like to see fully explored.

Perhaps ironically, the 'ACCESS FOR ALL' footbridge at Forest Hill Station has got beyond the planning stage and will most likely be built and operable in the next eighteen months. There will then be a lift at both ends of the bridge. But constraints of, for example, platform width, mean that the new bridge will be in the same general area as the current bridge.

Our campaign to save our train services was a huge success thanks to your support. Let’s see if we can do it again by backing the Forest Hill Society’s campaign to keep the gates open.

Chair's Report

Things are moving fast in Forest Hill and so writing my introduction is harder than usual as I am writing it in mid-May. So apologies if anything is a little out of date and keep checking our website for more information www.foresthillsociety.com.

We were pleased that council officers were able to come to our May General Meeting to talk about their plans for Forest Hill Pools. We hope that before demolition begins we have a proposed building that is acceptable to the majority of local residents and plans for a pool truly fit for the 21st century. We will keep you updated about this important issue. We want to make sure your views are heard.

Southern Rail are planning to install ticket barriers at Forest Hill and Honor Oak Park stations this June and although this would seem like a good development there are still a few concerns regarding their plans for limiting access from Perry Vale to Forest Hill station. The ticket barriers in the ticket offices will take Oyster cards, but will not accept pre-pay Oyster cards until 2010 in line with the plans for pre-pay roll out across the London train services. We continue to remain concerned about access to Forest Hill station from the Perry Vale side and will be lobbying hard on this issue.

Both the pools and the train services are big ways in which we expect to see improvements in Forest Hill but we also want to see improvements to our high streets. One of the keys ways for this to happen is for us all to SUPPORT LOCAL BUSINESSES. The Forest Hill Society is taking an active role in encouraging this by setting up The 23 Club. More about The 23 Club inside this newsletter, but to give you the basics it is your chance to help support local restaurants and at the same time meet other people, like you, who are passionate about Forest Hill. I hope to see you on the 23rd June at Kafe La for the first 23 Club.

With Forest Hill Day, Blythe Hill Fields Fun Day, and open days at Devonshire Road Nature Reserve and Havelock Walk all happening in June, this month is a great reminder of why Forest Hill is such a great place to live. We hope to see you at many of these events.

We're having our first ever Forest Hill Society Summer Barbecue on Saturday August 23rd at the Perry Hill pub. This is a lunchtime 23 Club event so one for the whole family to enjoy.

As a final note, looking forward to the Autumn and our AGM, we would be delighted if members would be interested in getting more involved in the Society - helping with deliveries of newsletters, joining one of the committees (transport, development, communications, Executive), or taking over from me in chairing the society. There is lots to do so please get involved. If you want more information about ways you can help, please feel free to email or call me at any time.

Michael Abrahams, Chair, Forest Hill Society